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SRAM Force and Felt Bikes
Anyone in the club been using SRAM and in particular the Force groupset? Interested in longevity, amount of tweaking required.
I've been using Ultegra and 600 before that and once set and cables pre-stretched just works so smoothly.
Bike I have my eye on has Force so hence the question.
Also interested in the F and AR range of Felts. Some good end of season deals on them at the moment. Anyone got one or ridden one?
All input appreciated,
Darren
I've been using Ultegra and 600 before that and once set and cables pre-stretched just works so smoothly.
Bike I have my eye on has Force so hence the question.
Also interested in the F and AR range of Felts. Some good end of season deals on them at the moment. Anyone got one or ridden one?
All input appreciated,
Darren
Comments
I have SRAM Red on my bike. It functions just like SRAM Force but costs a lot more for a whole 10 grams weight saving (I bought it on a deal about 3 weeks before SRAM Force came out).
I have to say that it was pretty tricky to set up. The rear mech is very touchy about cable tension. If you are slightly out then the sprockets will clatter. I use a Shimano Ultegra block with a KMC chain. I have heard that SRAM blocks are very loud so I stuck with Ultergra as I know this works great. The KMC chain is slightly wider than a Shimano chain but not enough to make the indexing wail. I think it may be related to the stiffness of the rear jockey wheels. Wheels like those made by Tacx have a bit of float even in the guide pulley which make them better at bedding down. On the other side of this coin is that when you do get the indexing spot on it functions brilliantly. I would say it was better than my training set-up of Shimano 105 + Ultegra block when shifting down (lower gears), shifting up is no difference. However this is not a fair comparison and I have no experience of using Dura Ace or Campag Super Record on a bike that only sees fair weather. I think they would be the same.
I know that our esteemed ex-member Ashley Cox removed SRAM Red from his race bike due to problems with the rear indexing. Basically when you have to change a wheel in a race from the general spare wheel pool the block may be in a slightly different position. This means you have to get through the rest of the race with clacking indexing. Not a problem if you don't change wheels all the time so it's not something that bothers me but should be kept in mind.
My real gripe about the groupset is the lack of lower trim on the front mech shifter (i.e. having a small stop that allows you to shift the mech 2mm and not actually change rings). Because the front mech cage is so narrow (more so than my 105 cage) this means I can only get sprockets 1-7 in my lower ring. I know you are not meant to ride the 8-9 sprocket in the lower ring due to chain stretch but sometimes it is useful to have the option. Instead I have to shift from my 39-15 to a 53-21 to get the next gear up. This is a bit of a pain because I ride a lot around the speed that uses the 39-16/15 and it is nice to be able to use the 39-14 on my other bike.
Interestingly there is an upper trim for the big ring so it is not as if SRAM have not thought about this. Obviously they are aiming at the pros who are all big ring bandits. I do not know if SRAM Force has a lower trim but it would be worth trying to find out.
The other main difference from Shimano are the brake levers/gear shifters. The double tap system is very different from Shimano. This involves pressing the lever a small way to click the mechanism: release straight away and you will change up; keep pressing and you will change down (up to a maximum of 3 sprockets). First point is that the mechanism is within the body and not stuck on the end of the pivoting lever like Shimano. This makes the lever much smaller and lighter. I think SRAM levers are 280g compared to 400+ for Shimano. This effects the ergonomics. The lever is more comfortable for gripping around the gum hoods when riding on the flat. However when out of the saddle pulling on the lever hoods they feel too small. Shimano levers just fit right in my hands. You should go to a shop and feel for yourself. Shifting with the double tap is fine. It only takes a minute or so to get used to the system. However it only uses one lever, as such it is smaller than a Shimano lever for shifting down the gears. This is not usually a problem but when my hands were sweating in the 30 degree heat of summer I did slip off the lever a few times. Due to the double tap system this usually meant I had pressed it far enough to release the internal mechanism and ended shifting up - not good when sweating up a steep hill.
It's not all bad though. I did say that shifting was great once set-up. I would also point out that the chainset is incredibly stiff. This may be related to the new BB30 standard I have on my bike but it is partly due to the stiff crankset and chainrings.
In summary:
- SRAM is very light
- Rear mech can be tricky to set-up and has chain tensioning issues (i.e. dropped chains)
- Front mech has no lower trim (which is annoying)
- Shifter ergonomics are different and a personal choice
- SRAM is not Campagnolo (a personal choice)
- SRAM lost Frank Schleck the Tour de France
I think that if you are familiar with Shimano Ultegra then go with that. The new groupset is great. A few guys in the club have it and it delivers bomb-proof reliability and top performance. SRAM is for weight weenies and too much hassle for those who don't like to tinker with their ride.I don't have the double tap issues as I have tri bars or the front mech issues as rarely use the inner ring however on the occasion when needed it is not as slick as my DuraAce.
now its all set it works like a dream, have also switched rear wheel using a DuraAce block and it was fine.
I think for 2010 the cassette and chain combination has been tweaked to make shifting and running quieter. I'm running a SRAM cassette with an Ultegra chain on my summer bike at the mo and there's no discernible difference between that and my other bike's all Ultegra drivetrain.
Do you find that once set, the gear mechs are set and forget?
For me, not getting the last 2 sprockets isn't an issue as I tend to move up to the big ring and get a better chain line. Worth thinking about though if I ever change cassette combination. I don't think the latest chainset does have trim on the lower ring. Not sure why this is although I have seen online reviewers berating the fact that they need to trim the front derailleur. I do this all the time with my current Ultegra and for me an extra 1 second of effort makes no difference.
Interesting what you say about the lever ergonomics. This could well be a big factor for me. Having used one vintage of Ultegra for so long muscle memory might make anything else seem wrong.
I always ease off slightly changing any gear so I may be able to overcome the dropped chain issue with the right initial setup.
I'm going to have a look at a few bikes tomorrow but getting any shop with a decent range of bikes to let you have a good test ride is nigh on impossible. Some refuse point blank, some want a £30 fee, some will let you have a short ride up and down the road.
The bike with the Force groupset is one I saw in passing and thought looked good and has a half decent set of wheels (American Classic 420 Aero 3). The Felts are both Ultegra but with inferior wheels. There is always the possibility of upgrading the wheels but depends on overall final cost.
Darren
Anyone with experience of Felt bikes?
It's a Alu/carbon frame which is pretty light and stiff. You are right about the wheels though - mine is an ultergra speced bike that came with tiagra spec wheels !
One other thing is that the top tubes on the F series bikes are quite long so def worth a try before you buy.
Hope this helps
DavidJ
I tried a Felt F4 and wasn't overly impressed with the wheel package. I wasn't that keen on the Ultegra levers either, the large bump meant a completely different shape to my old 2000ish vintage levers. I couldn't try an AR4 as they didn't have one in but I did try the AR2. How I wish I hadn't. What a cracking bike. Full DA and carbon wheels. As soon as I put my hands on the bars it felt right, just a little short on overall reach but that was easily solved as they had a 56cm in stock yet to be built up. In the end it was sold online before I had a chance to ride it anyway.
So, I ended up getting the Moda. I've only done 3 short rides but the Force groupset changes gear faultlessly, and the levers are similar in profile to my current Ultegras so they were instantly comfortable. Most importantly the frame just makes road vibration almost disappear. The wheels pretty aero and as light as a light thing, and by all accounts are bombproof, we'll see.
Will it make me faster? I'm sure the placebo effect will kick in but losing weight will make more of a difference and costs a lot less. I'll reserve judgement until I've done a couple of 3hour rides but I'm sure my back will thank me for it.
Darren