Change of kit manufacturer??

LukeDanckert

I have been browsing the internet in search of a skinsuit in recent weeks and came across a company called Impsport. I have spoken to a coupe of people and read a few reviews that are all very good, also looking at their current club customers they can't be bad.

The service that stood out for me was a club shop that allows individual club members to view and purchase club items on a single order basis, i.e. if one person wants a jersey or skinsuit then they simply browse their club design site and order items as and when they please, just like shopping at Wiggle etc. The order can then be delivered to the cub or even the club members home address no more than 28 days later, quicker if you want to pay extra.

Here is a link if anyone wants to read more detail themselves www.yourclubshop.co.uk

I understand how difficult it must be to stay on top of orders from individuals at different times of the year and then distribute them. This service looks like it eliminates that burden at a very reasonable cost. I don't know what our obligation to Endura is or if people would even consider changing manufacturer. I just thought i'd post it up here so people could see it for themselves and maybe put their thoughts in an open forum.

Luke

arm262

Just a small note of caution -I think you will find that the listing of cycle clubs getting their kit from Impsport is more than a little out of date.

Also if you look at the base prices there is quite an increase to the cost.

Then again as someone who does the kit for another club I understand the stresses & strains involved in keeping club members happy when suppliers lead times stretch out.
With the exception of the summer shutdown MSTina usually manage to get our orders to us in around 6 weeks - prices appear to be similar to Endura.

Alison

Pearce

Luke, great idea, in fact i had passed this onto the powers that be months ago as i really rate what Impsport do, and raised it again to Mark after the AGM. For the moment he wants to stick to Endura and give them one more chance. Personally i would want to see it changed for 2014 at least.
I do wonder what deal we are getting from Endura when i see other club kit advertised for £30-35 for a S/S jersey, although this might be subsidised by the club (which might be something else to consider). And it's disheartening to read that other clubs get kit pretty quickly, and we have to wait around for months and months.
I would be racing in club kit if it were more accessible. As it is now i will probably never be, i didn't want to and couldn't wait for months for a skinsuit so made a purchase elsewhere.

This is no slight on the service and effort from Mark but more the poor service from Endura, but i do also think we should explore other avenues for kit with a view to making a decision for 2014. I'm happy to help with this.

Senecio [Daniel D]

The choice of kit supplier is a big one. For one thing we all spend ages wearing it so it has got to be good quality.

Delivery time has always been an issue and I suspect always will be. One way to deal with this is to carry a larger stock, but of course that ties up club money. It is complex.

I'm sure Mark is looking into this and I am grateful he is prepared to takle this nest of hornets!

Daniel

Stef

I think you are in danger of basing your criticism of Endura on one recent bad experience, where they did take a very long time to deliver one order due largely to a change of premises.
personally I've never had problem accessing club kit and have been very pleased with what I've got. the number of people riding in cca kit every time we go out suggests most people who want it have got kit too.
as Alison's message says, other clubs with different suppliers and big orders have similar problems and pay similar prices
also I will let him reply but I know Mark has investigated Impsport and there are plenty of bad stories and bad experiences out there.

dont get me wrong, I know it is frustrating when you have to wait for kit to arrive because you want to ride in cca kit.

Lee H

just throwing my two'penneth in here and trying to avoid stoking the hornets nest but do we have an exclusive arrangement with Endura? if not, then is there a problem with individuals sorting out their own kit (in the approved CCA livery of course), from their own prefered supplier.

by the way, I think the quality of the kit from Endura is very good

timA

I would support a process where we could order individually, even if it meant paying a bit more. With the current arrangement it looks like I won't be able to get any summer kit until end of September, which obviously makes it unlikely I'll be able to wear it until next year.

On the club's membership page it says "For greater visibility and presence on the roads, all members are encouraged to wear official club kit on rides." I'm trying to do that as a relatively new member, but it's proving quite difficult! (Also btw a link is provided to the Endura custom kit catalogue, which when you go there says "2013 Brochure coming shortly"...)

Don't get me wrong I love Endura stuff and already have some of it, but I don't think it's acceptable to have to wait many months to get it. Would Endura themselves allow individual orders maybe?

geoffg

Calm down everyone. Stef is right. However everyone, including Mark is getting frustrated. As suppliers get popular they have problems delivering The prices go up, the service goes down and we become less important to them. Doesn't matter who you choose. It is universal. Bob bought our first club shirts in 2002 or thereabouts. I still have one. They made us feel good all being in the same club shirt, but the design, quality and fit were rubbish. That was Endura. I took on kit. I organised our club design which was the work of a then member Graham England (still lives in Newnham/Caldecot).We moved to Pro-Vision who gave us a quality design and fit at a good price. Their service was rubbish. After 2 orders I moved the club to Bio-Racer. This kit was superb except some issues with shorts and pad. We ordered some £2k-£3k each time twice per annum. Our delivery was 6-8 weeks and for the first 2-3 orders o.k. We then had a 12 week period and the club rebelled. I handed over to Tim Skelding who set about really expanding the range and modified our design with a white side strip. He and Martin also designed and ordered specials for club trips. A great innovation. I think Mark has this in hand but understand where you are all coming from. Pro-vision have our designs and are now very professional. Bio racer also have our design and have overcome their problems. Other suppliers are allowing individuals to order kit independently. Let Mark look into all these options and come back. Please remember that ALL suppliers get overstretched and let down their loyal customer base at some time or other. I do feel however that Endura have had 2 bites at the cherry and another supplier should be considered.

tduckett

Ok, some points to bear in mind....

Ive heard all this before. In my old racing club a long time ago we used to use impsport and there were loads of complaints, they once even sent a massive order in the wrong colour! Now, im sure they are better now but everyone has a gripe with any current setup. Individual ordering could be the way to go but it may be more expensive.

Endura got the last order wrong and it wasnt good but Mark wants to give them another chance, so we should respect that. Mark works very hard with a very difficult role. We are all volunteers and give up our time, sometimes an awful lot of it for free. Are you prepared to give up many hours a week for a club role?

Yes , we only have 2 orders a year and they may take a long time to process, so order your skin suit, winter top, summer top etc now. Help Mark by getting orders in by the deadlines he stipulates. Other clubs may subsidise club clothing, we don't and at £15 a year membership certainly wont be. We also cant keep huge amounts of stock.

The current set up isnt perfect and i doubt any set up would be. Mark wants to give Endura another go so that is what we are doing. If Mark at some point in the future doesnt want to organise the kit then someone else can step in with their ideas or we can go over to individual ordering. For now please bear with us and do your best to help Mark with the ordering process.

Remember we are all volunteers in this club just doing our best with limited time.

Thanks

Richard M.

I'd just like to echo Tim's comments.

Kit is one of the hardest jobs in any club and anyone who 'volunteers' for the role needs our 100% support.

LukeDanckert

Just to clarify, the idea of this post was to highlight the individual order process, it's not something I have seen before for custom kit and wanted to put it out there. The work of all volunteers is very much appreciated especially appointments like Kit where their is so much reliance on a company's service.

geoffg

Understood Luke.....we are just expressing some of the issues involved as individuals who have held the position of club kit organisers. Believe me, the individual characters in any club make this role almost impossible. Cyclists are so focused on themselves they rarely see the bigger picture and they always want stuff at a time convenient to themselves. They ignore pleas to order ahead, they always ask for exceptions at the last minute, they rarely turn up when the kit is in an arranged place and time, they want to pick kit up at their convenience whatever the inconvenience to the kit organiser. None of this is malicious or contrived. It's just how it is. Add to this the unreliability of ALL kit suppliers at some time or other and you have a recipe for stress on a mega scale. Please everyone...be patient and let Mark do this very difficult job in his way. Just think ahead and order your kit. Simple really. Don't leave it till the last minute and don't expect the club to hold vast stocks for your convenience. We can't afford to have cash tied up this way. The stock we have is really for new members wishing to wear some club kit. Any existing club member should ALWAYS order and pay ahead for their kit. No need to call down the club's stock of kit as this will deprive new members of the chance to wear club colours. Note to ALL racers here. Strictly speaking Everyone should ALWAYS race in club colours. If you race you represent the club and it's just doing the right thing by the club. Besides, given the success of this club and its racing members I can't see why anyone wouldn't wish to show they belong to CCA.

DavidS

I have to confess that I know nothing about kit ordering and it sounds like a complete mare for those poor brave individuals who dare take it on!

In the past we talked about approaching Tri-Sports to see if they would possibly hold some stock kit and sell it through the shop. It would probably result in people making additional adhoc purchases whilst buying there club kit (good business opportunity for Tri-sports with additional foot fall), it would also allow people to try before they buy, reducing the risk of wrong sizing for potential purchasers.

I personally would be happy to pay more for a club jersey and have the added convenience of buying it through a shop.

I suspect we may have even approached them before and they may have said no in the past, but perhaps worth another attempt.

It should be possible to plot the most popular items and their respective sizes to reduce the risk of holding too much unsold stock.

Surely the club is big enough to warrant such an approach, I believe it is fairly common practice for other large clubs.

DS

skelders

wow... I remember this discussion a few years ago. :-}

Club kit is a really tough, time consuming job! well done Mark for stepping up and taking it on. (& thanks)

I investigated all the above and more when i inhertited from Geoff, I took samples & references from all the top manufactureres and some unknowns.

almost without exception the references I took on imp were terrible, nice idea but not good, cr@p quality etc etc

All the kit I have from Endura (and i have a lot ;-) is excellent quality and has stood the test of time very well indeed.

I understand Endura have had a few issues recently however do also remember they have helped us out in the past - free kit, replacing whole orders for free when we got it wrong, no charges for special designs, last minute changes to orders, great discounts over the years, no price changes for FIVE years (except the VAT increase) and we have a good relationship with their sales team.

Hopefully they can repay our loyalty soon with improved service as i for one would vote for staying :-)

Skelders - ex Kitman :-)

well done again Mark!!

geoffg

all good points Tim and well put. Given the inside info. you have just imparted re. deals, taking back and specials I rescind my thought on a possible change at sometime and agree we stay and work to get a better service and maybe a better discount for loyalty and volume.

Shelton

Well said Skelders, in my nomad days some what 20yrs or so ago impsport was really good. Team Cambridge use Impsport and yes the quality is rubbish and the delivery can be slow. As a new member I dont want to get to involved but I think some times it is worth waiting for the kit as I have used Endura for a few years now and I find it is a really good fit and good quality, I can fully understand peoples frustration on Delivery though.

Jane

The club's been growing fast with a lot of members starting to compete and more of us are wearing club colours than ever before - which is great. It means there's more demand for kit, but it doesn't necessarily mean we'll have to hold more stock. And it should mean Endura is keen to hold onto us as a customer.

I'm not sure how our ordering dates are determined, but I'm guessing we've been placing 2 orders per year.... that's 1 for summer kit and 1 for winter kit, with some of the more popular items held by the club as stock? Perhaps it's time to start ordering more frequently (if Mark can bear it)? That might ease some of the current grumbles? Members will still have to plan ahead, order through Mark and respect Endura's lead times, but we should get pretty good quality kit.

Key to all of this is having somebody who'll give up his own valuable time to organise us, so be good to Mr Kit. He has enough headaches as it is!

James D

Following the great success of people paying their subs online (thanks everyone it made things very efficient this year) we are looking at setting up a system for people to order and pay for kit online rather than needing to go to the pub and pay Kit by cash or cheque. This will simplify and semi-automate the process and ultimately should make it easier for everyone.

i need to speak to our Webmeister and Mark to work out the details and hope to be making an announcement fairly soon.

wilburtrump

brilliant, that seems like a good plan. will it mean that kit can be ordered and received outside of the twice yearly batches? my jersey is hanging off of me and falling to bits... now at the point that i'd rather race in something else, but don't have anything with CCA on! the next order will come in after my season has finished...

Kit (Mark B)

Wow!
Not been around for a few days and caught up with this at the weekend. Reading through it seems all the pros and cons have been discussed.
Endura let the club down on the last order, this being due to a factory move mid way through production of our order as I understand part was made in the original factory and the remainder packed up and shipped to the new one and finished. This caused an excessive delay in both manufacture and delivery, and caused me un necessary problems explaining the delays on their behalf.
At the time an alternative supplier was considered but in discussions with other committee members and a frank discussion with Endura it was decided to run with this order largely due to the reasons explained by Skelders.
By pre booking a manufacturing slot we can get the delivery time down considerably which has been done this time.
I fully appreciate the frustrations of the members who have no kit the previous kit order all but sold out on the stock items before it arrived by members e mailing me and pre booking shirts etc leaving no stock shirts when they arrived.
It is a difficult task to gauge how much kit to buy and in what sizes, on one hand getting enough to last to the next order and on the other not ending up with items that may never sell.
The last order was placed very early in January before we had a large number of new members join the club.
Please order the items you want or need that way you won't be disappointed and left with no kit, the system isn't perfect and we are all volunteers if there is more demand for kit I can increase the numbers of orders
I would point out that to date only a handful of members have placed orders and I am looking to place the order at the end of the month
Kit