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Team Sky and British Cycling
Do any of you share my despair at the news trickling out........... I still want to believe the stated ethos of a clean team.
The sheer stupidity of the way this has been handled has upset and shocked me given the OCD nature of Sir DB's attention to detail and control nature. My belief is they made a bad decision to take advantage of the TUE's loophole. They must have know the added side benefits of the drug even if it was the only one to sort Wiggins medical needs.
I am not surprised at the revelations about BC's approach to training women and men and their chauvanism.
The management has a cliquey approach face fits mentality and they definitely put employees under pressure as many are made to fear for their positions and therefore are likely to do things without question to secure their posts. I don't believe it is as bad as the media are making out but both organisations need a shaking if only to restore our faith that they are doing right by their riders.
The sheer stupidity of the way this has been handled has upset and shocked me given the OCD nature of Sir DB's attention to detail and control nature. My belief is they made a bad decision to take advantage of the TUE's loophole. They must have know the added side benefits of the drug even if it was the only one to sort Wiggins medical needs.
I am not surprised at the revelations about BC's approach to training women and men and their chauvanism.
The management has a cliquey approach face fits mentality and they definitely put employees under pressure as many are made to fear for their positions and therefore are likely to do things without question to secure their posts. I don't believe it is as bad as the media are making out but both organisations need a shaking if only to restore our faith that they are doing right by their riders.
Comments
Firstly, I believe the ethos of the team still remains and that it is by its nature is a work in progress. There has been some lapse along the way notably with Greert Leinders coming strictly under the 'what where they thinking' and JTL whose indiscretion was prior to him signing with Sky but still a little naive on the part of Sky who where reliant on others.
Fully agree with the 'sheer stupidity' comment regarding the TUE's and why they chose not to kill this dead when they could rather than be evasive is a little puzzling. I understand that DB cites in part direction from UKAD but SS account is just unbelievable....literally.
Revelations about BC's approach to training - i assume in part that you are referring to Jess Varnish's allegations which i struggle with given the timing of the complaints and the subsequent compensation claim
I dont believe the management are cliquey and struggle with this point. There is of course pressure to preform but i believe no more than other teams.
Completely agree with the press and their attitude to Sky especially the french press and its known drug cheat correspondents. Of course a successful team with such a strong ethos will always attract a degree of criticism and speculation and DB lacks the media cunning to deal with this to some degree.
In my with opinion Sky is a fantastic ambassador and advocate for both cycling and Britain. The team has undoubtedly made mistakes but have sort to correct them and in this post Armstrong era i guess no one expected the ghosts to disappear overnight.
A very interesting subject Geoff under the banner of 'to be continued' and definitely one to discuss over a bottle (or 2) of wine
As for Sky I think that Sir DB and team have built a superb organisation and a talented squad who will go on to greater success. I just wish they had been more savvy with the media and not tried to use a legitimate loophole which has now tainted their squeaky clean image. Nothing and no one is perfect and we learn from our mistakes. This can only make them stronger and better if they move on transparently from here.
DB orchestrated and oversaw a new way of training with Team Sky mainly driven by Tim Kerrison who interestingly does not have a cycling background and supported by Rod Ellingworth of course
TK is very systematic and rigid and of course implemented a lot on new training techniques such as structed winter training etc. Riders are monitored constantly in both their training performances, what they eat and indeed a rider will have to apply if they wish to eat unknown snacks. This then goes through a process where Sky approach the manufacturers of said snack and request the contents before sanctioning its use and adding it to the plan.
This approach has built a successful team but as you remark possably at the exclusion of mavericks and notably JTL. JTL never did well at Sky and struggled with the training regime, my thoughts are as you suggest because JTL was a maverick with a background in BMX rather than the more familiar route in which the training schedule would have been similar. Its interesting that the successful Sky riders generally have very similar training passports.
Apparently, after the departure of JTL and when Mikel Nieve joined Sky DB implemented the 'Wining Behaviours strategy' which asks 'what makes you stop wining? this seems to imply that the training regime needs to be more flexible and to be tailored to the rider and that all riders are not the same both physically and psychologically (even after a few sessions with SP)
Agree completely with the comments regarding the media in which DB appears to be very naive and too open. Very strange than that in the debate on the use of TUE's DB is the polar opposite which leads us conveniently back to your first post of despair and stupidity..harsh but fair
-- Cutting corners?
-- Engaging in (gasp) nepotism?
-- Exploiting grey areas for performance (e.g. financial) gain?
-- Putting large amounts of pressure (e.g. bullying) to conform and perform?
-- Becoming secretive and insular to protect its interests?
-- Letting behavioural standards slip amongst key personnel?
Is anyone seriously surprised by any of this? When sport is a paid entertainment profession these are, and always will be, the inevitable consequences. Predictable, unavoidable, unsurprising and inevitable.
Cynical? No, just realistic about human nature.
DB set out his game plan and staked his reputation on achieving a performance driven clean team. If he wishes to continue running SKY then he has to demonstrate openly how he will recover from this set back.
Having started the youth section of CCA and coaching , supporting and seeing our young riders develop and mature into fine adults and athletes with their own hopes and ambitions I still believe in doing ones utmost to work for a clean sport. Unless you keep fighting and striving for the right way it will eventually deteriorate into the mire we are crawling out from yet again.There is a difference in being aware of what is going on and thinking that is the only way. Some money is still there for the right reasons so I'll keep taking the blue pill as you suggest though I hold that my reality is still achievable.
It's turning a blind eye, it's being "economical with he truth" it's pretending that you weren't aware of the beneficial side effects, and so on. You have been in professional promotional writing for the financial sector to know when something may be legal but immoral.
They know what is right and the young riders we coach deserve their role models to do their best to maintain high ethical standards.
Given the sports nutrition and training knowledge we can now bring to the game it is not impossible to race clean and compete.
It's simple really. No loopholes..banned substances are banned in ALL circumstances. 100% testing before racing. If you can't race without taking drugs to help you breath properly that is sadly a disability. That's what the paralympics are there for. Inhalers for asthma are permitted to stop the participants collapsing from lack of oxygen. However you look at it it is a disability. I suffer from hay fever and the result is every year I lose some 20% lung capacity from excess fluid reducing my oxygen absorption capability. I would never have been able to compete in my youth.
I think you are wrong and that it is possible to do it right. Racing clean has a lot to offer big money sponsors in feel good promotion.
What you are not addressing with this show of literary expertise is how to make changes and alter circumstances to assist everyone to work back towards those goals set out at the beginning.
There is nothing inherently impossible about racing clean. That is the goal to return to.
There is everything wrong in giving in to the belief that letting big money twist the rules and behaviour to suit itself is inevitable.
That is the whole point of having principles. They are difficult to live with and very hard to maintain, but unless we keep pushing against the corrupting influences we all lose out.
Just saying someone is an adult because they have adjusted their viewpoint doesn't really mean anything. There are as many definitions of adulthood as childhood.
You grow up when you learn that you can't blame someone else for your mistakes. When you own the consequences of your actions and take responsibility for trying to correct them as and when possible.
You made an earlier assumption of my nature by inferring that we would all be turned by the corrupting influence of running a multimillion pound team
" I KNOW that I would be just susceptible. So would you or anyone else, due to our fundamental nature. "
My fundamental nature is totally averse to such Andy. If you don't know that you don't know me.
I am not alone in this. I have spent a major part of my life working towards being free of any such influence and can honestly say that should someone wish to offer me such an opportunity I could setup and run a non corrupt team.
I think there are others around of like mind and want them to step up to the plate and start showing how things can be run clean. Bespoke ran a good hour long discussion around this subject. Worth a listen on iPlayer radio.
It is not an inevitable unmovable situation. Just because they went wrong doesn't mean they can't put it right. See your point on learning from mistakes.
There is MORE to be gained by a sponsor supporting a clean team than a "corrupted" team. just look at the sponsors who pulled out when the teams they supported were too deeply mired in the scandals. Cynical or otherwise it is still a commercial fact of life.
People aspire to emulate their chosen role models. Whether we like it or not one cannot stop people doing this. As you are wont to say it's human nature.
So the role models like it or not need to live up to the adulation many of them seek.
It is possible to race clean by using the latest sport science and training. It's more expensive than drugs and more time consuming but better all round for the rider, team and sponsor so worth the time effort and money.
I still hold it true from knowledge and experience that just because many can be swayed by money it doesn't make it so that ALL are so destined.
I want a clean sport, amateur or professional.
Most people seem to want this.
Therefore that's what we should all strive for. It's not impossible just very hard.
I am by nature an optimist. I want to believe the best in people. I realise that not everything works out to the best but noone ever learns anything without making mistakes. It's how we recover and improve from these that makes us grow and develop.
So we must keep trying and rebuilding.
Nothing happens without belief and hope.
I genuinely believe that DB has been naive and will try to correct his mistakes. BC will like Sky try and put measures in place to show they are trying to be "the best they can be" to use their phrase. Some will believe I am an innocent at large but that is what it takes to try and rebuild from the wreckage. Dreams and hopes with a steadfast resolve are the lifeblood of a healthy society. Without them there is only cynical reality and despair.
Think we got your points before.
Better audience for this on the sugar free plum fairy 10am ride thread.
One is well versed and one is well parsed HSBD