Excellent. Thanks Matt. I've been tinkering with a spreadsheet that looks at individuals 20m and 5m powers within a team to work out a potential maximum pull duration and power to keep us together.
Watch this space...
Sorry Dan need to be finished a little earlier tonight so can't make it now. Will watch the vid at least looking forward to next weeks race if there is a spot on the team, looks like we are doing well relatively!
Thanks Dave, that link was useful. Certainly in terms of drafting efficiency per rider. Sorry, can't make tonight. I'll post some thoughts in a bit for those riding to see if my spreadsheet works!
Some basic assumptions.
Lowest 20 minute power rider at 95% is "resting"
Then max power per rider limited to lower of either 150% of resting power (so as not to drop lowest power) or at 120% of 5 minute power.
If 120% of 5 minute over 150% resting then longer turn on front by 1" per one watt over (no logic, easy calc)
Before I forget, here's some learning points we took away from Thursday's TTT training session: 1) @Matt_Palmer - your calculations were pretty much spot-on! Don't know how you worked it out, but it was pretty accurate. 2) Power adjustments are really sensitive, and slightly delayed - trickier than in real life keeping a tidy paceline, very easy to overshoot from the back of the group and find yourself off the front. 3) Whilst Matt's power calculations are very accurate, it's only the lead rider's power that really matters - it's more important that the riders behind just concentrate on closing the gaps than hitting specific power, as there are too many variables - changes in gradient, how exactly front rider sticks to target power, etc. 4) Changes are disruptive - the less, the better - rather than sticking to one minute turns, its better if the lead rider goes for as long as they can (comfortably) hold the target power. Every time there is a switch, there is a risk of the line getting disrupted by the 'sticky' draft. Certainly whilst we're getting the hang of this - maybe increase the frequency of changes once we get better at it? 5) Use of 'birdseye' view (camera 9 on PC) - personally I found it much easier using the overhead view to spot gaps and changes in speed. 6) Need for different coloured helmets/hair? Got rather confusing three of us wearing the same hat... 7) Being ruthless... We have to get four of the six over the line together - Sounds harsh, but there has to be a decision at some point in the race where it's ok to leave someone behind rather than easing off for stragglers to catch up. 8) Sending two back to pick up a straggler rather than one - probably more effective.
Did I miss anything? I thought Thursday's session was really useful, rather than having to do it for real in a race situation - we were definitely tidier by the end of the session...
Think that was everything Dave. Thanks for summarising. Definitely gets very tactical and need to train together to be efficient. Watched some of the broadcasts on YouTube and mightily impressive seeing some teams operate.
Definitely up for a TT practice for week 47's race!
To confirm, the lead riders power target shoild be 150% of the resting riders power, or 120% of 5 min power, but what is the "resting power" when Matt has quoted as 95% of this Lowest 20 minute power rider? Their FTP results? Fascinates me..looking forward to trying it out
Glad it went well. Chris, I took the Zwift Power 20mins X 95% as opposed to FTP, as it is generally lower (well mine is), and also easily available from everyone's profile page.
Looking forward to it. Very decent warm up needed to launch into the first climb. I assume tactics consist of cycle as hard as possible up the first climb and see what happens.
Yep, that's plan A. I enjoyed the bit in the vid about 6W/Kg for the climb - not on your life matey, will see where I place after the first selection, suspect it will be a case of finding whatever small group you are in after that and working for minor placings in the final sprint. If I make it over the top near the front with the actual A's i'll contribute however I can to chasing down breaks to save Matt P/Chris L/Dave W's legs for the final climb and finish, chat on discord later
I'm already focussing on Plan B of finding and racing the grupetto - I think the front bunch will be ridiculously tough to stay with tonight - I'll go hard on the first climb, but I'll be amazed if I'm still at the front by the top...
Comments
16 points for each event. If we had that for all 4 events thus far we would be in 2nd place
Watch this space...
Lowest 20 minute power rider at 95% is "resting"
Then max power per rider limited to lower of either 150% of resting power (so as not to drop lowest power) or at 120% of 5 minute power.
If 120% of 5 minute over 150% resting then longer turn on front by 1" per one watt over (no logic, easy calc)
Riders tonight:
Dan, Dave, Matt S, Graham.
Lowest rest watts: 232
Limiting max watts: 348
Dan: 1' 15" @ 348 Watts
Dave: 1'00" @ 326 Watts
Matt S: 1' 00" @ 292 Watts
Graham: 1'00 @ 339 Watts
Rider 2 @ 280 Watts
Rider 3 @ 243 Watts
Rider 4 @ 232 Watts
May just work! Or just ride how you fancy.
Let me know thoughts!
.. it's a long one... NY Everything Bagel. 35km race, we need 6 riders to compete.
Get your name down here if you would like to race...
Names by Monday night please so we can organise the team.
Cheers, Matt
1) @Matt_Palmer - your calculations were pretty much spot-on! Don't know how you worked it out, but it was pretty accurate.
2) Power adjustments are really sensitive, and slightly delayed - trickier than in real life keeping a tidy paceline, very easy to overshoot from the back of the group and find yourself off the front.
3) Whilst Matt's power calculations are very accurate, it's only the lead rider's power that really matters - it's more important that the riders behind just concentrate on closing the gaps than hitting specific power, as there are too many variables - changes in gradient, how exactly front rider sticks to target power, etc.
4) Changes are disruptive - the less, the better - rather than sticking to one minute turns, its better if the lead rider goes for as long as they can (comfortably) hold the target power. Every time there is a switch, there is a risk of the line getting disrupted by the 'sticky' draft. Certainly whilst we're getting the hang of this - maybe increase the frequency of changes once we get better at it?
5) Use of 'birdseye' view (camera 9 on PC) - personally I found it much easier using the overhead view to spot gaps and changes in speed.
6) Need for different coloured helmets/hair? Got rather confusing three of us wearing the same hat...
7) Being ruthless... We have to get four of the six over the line together - Sounds harsh, but there has to be a decision at some point in the race where it's ok to leave someone behind rather than easing off for stragglers to catch up.
8) Sending two back to pick up a straggler rather than one - probably more effective.
Did I miss anything? I thought Thursday's session was really useful, rather than having to do it for real in a race situation - we were definitely tidier by the end of the session...
To confirm, the lead riders power target shoild be 150% of the resting riders power, or 120% of 5 min power, but what is the "resting power" when Matt has quoted as 95% of this Lowest 20 minute power rider? Their FTP results? Fascinates me..looking forward to trying it out
No worries if not.
Matt P
Dave W
Dan H
Chris P
Chris L
Matt S
Emails to follow with Sign on link.
Tron bike if you have it. Or Tarmac Pro / Aeroad 2021 with DT Swiss wheels or Zipp 858s