Well done Matt! Superb result. That is a tough course. I started to loose touch on the 2nd climb then got stuck on no mans land at the top and struggles to latch on a few bunches that flew past. Tried to go for points on the sprints for fastest times but think the highest i got was 12th so not in the points scoring. I have noticed a few riders on Zwift power did not have HR monitors or have weight and height entered.
Well that was bloody hard..for my power profile i think Richmond reverse is my bogey course. Cracked up the 7% long drag second time out, great work Dave hanging in that group. Won the sprint for 30th which may mean a lone point extra than the rest of my group so all counts...TTT next week chaps
Well done everyone, especially Matt with the win and Dan 6th. Good to ride with Martin in the 2nd group on the road, although think he helped me more than I helped him! When do we find out our league positions? Already excited, intrigued and nervous about next weeks TTT!
Well done Matt and a great effort everyone. First race in a while for me. Found it hard with lack of fitness and it showed as my power has dropped since a couple of months ago.
Tough starting from the back but eventually made it up to the front only to get dropped on the first couple of hills. From here a second group formed and we worked to reign in the front group on the flat, another split happened and this group appeared to stay together for a while. Dan and myself were in the lead group it seemed like it was mostly Dan and myself doing the work on the front. 9/8km to the final was the last hill and my legs fell off and at 4km to go I couldn’t stop the following group catch me. I stayed with them only to get rolled by 5 or 6 riders on the line. Need more practice and need to get my tactics right for future races.
im working tonight, but i cant make the B TTT next week anyway. Those that havnt done a TTT yet on Zwift, a practice is much needed after experience from Season 1. Sink and Sprint and gauging the right power behind another rider took a few races to perfect. Matt P come up with some good numbers for us to work with.
The science of the TT as fine tuned during season 1.
All in Watts as generally flat and weight doesn't matter.
4 riders need to cross the line so take 4th riders 20 minute power and x 85% to get to nice resting watts.
Drafting for 4th rider is 35% more efficient. So 1st rider can be riding at 150% of 4th rider resting watts. This is the cap for front riders on the front.
Front riders should be at this limit (or as close as they can get) for as long as reasonable to keep speed. So powerful riders longer on front, less so, shorter. 45 to 90 seconds works well.
Next key is staying in line. Zwift will not overtake a rider if speeds roughly the same and watts are lower. So spread the power range between places.
For As
4th rider powers for As at around 280/290 Watts.
So 285 X 85% is 250 watts. Recovery watts.
Front rider. 250 X 150% is 375 watts. Max front watts.
Note 5min power is good indication of what is reasonable as max for each rider.
In reality this worked well but if coming through at max watts then it tended to split. So come through at 350 watts and build up (if possible) and back down again before handing over.
In theory identical as powers similar, just heavier riders.
However, top end power likely to be a bit less so 350 to 375 powers may not be sustainable.
So suggest target 350, coming through at 325 to start to get the feel.
Tips.
On uphills limit the w/kg. Say 4 Bs and 4.5 As. Stay together.
On downhills. Give it some. As long as build slowly no limit to max power. 500 watts no problem if decent long enough.
On the change over. Count down from 5. Stop all power at 0 and then sprint when at last rider back in line. 2nd rider builds slightly early.
When out of position. Easier to move up then down. So rider behind increase power for short period (not too much as speed builds and then shoot off front!)
Make sure line up is agreed beforehand. Group more powerful riders together to get smoother change overs.
At some point for max speed cut down to 4 if needed.
Matt - this is really really helpful. This will be my first ever Team TT. Couple of question on your tips:
1. On the countdown from 5 at change over, is that the front man that counts down? And do you mean literally count down over discord?
2. What’s the theory behind going so hard on descents? I always thought that burning power on downhills is more wasteful than burning power on uphills because drag increases exponentially with speed? Interested to understand this.
Rob: 1. Yes that's right count down over discord, we have used it for the whole race and it helps a lot. I tend to stop pedaling totally at 0 for 1 or 2 seconds then a quick standing surge to let the string past but get back on the end (Zwift overtaking mechanics are a little funny but you get a feel for them)
2. Rule 1 for a TTT is keep the speed high. The front person smashing down the hill will still help everyone rest and keeps momentum up when getting on the flat as well.
Some points to add from me: - We found having an organised order makes it much easier in terms of comms, all I need to know is that Dave Wells goes before me then I hand over to Chris L (usually) then its just about listening when coming to do your turn.
- To keep things moving if you are the front rider at your wattage target, keep it up even if someone accidentally comes past, let them sort that out, just do "your turn" until ready to swing off, this helps string everyone out efficiently.
- Dont be a hero and try and do huge pulls at the start unless you know you can back up at the end, 60-90 seconds at the high wattage target will bite 30+ minutes in. KEEP THE SPEED HIGH
- Be relatively cut throat with chopping riders if they are dropped, don't sit and wait too long for someone to get back on as long as you have 4 or more. The dropped rider should keep going as much as possible in case any of the pack have dropouts etc, be prepared to make calls on the fly - it's great fun
Also the start is a little different. Everyone racing is in 1 start pen, you get a time slot when to start. So for example a race with start at 19:55 but you maybe given say a 5 minute time delay so you don’t start riding when the banner goes you wait with someone pre decided doing that count down, then you go after that 5 minute count down. Additional to this you must stop pedaling 45-30 before the “race start” to spin down your turbo otherwise you will risk false a start. Then the added risk that your turbo will then “go to sleep” with no use. So I went to the pairing screen and kept the turbo ticking over there.
Looks like tonight isnt going to work for the B TTT. We have a committee meeting tomorrow so can try Sat eve? Or Sun? Post below what you can do and I'll set something up. Rob perhaps you should join us as well if next week is going to be your first go.
ChrisL, nice find. It was good to rewatch. Proof that I'm such a wheel sucker! It was also interesting to see where you dropped off as I swore you were up the road at one point. It was that super effort to get points on that sprint was then paid for on the next rise.
Certainly nice to see I can just about beat a 12 year old in a sprint though. They all went sooo early.
Dan - thanks for the invite. Yes I’d like to join the practice. I’m pretty flexible all weekend.
Matt P - very impressive to watch. You guys have so much top end power.
Hi Dan - I would probably prefer Saturday evening. Thanks for all the tips above everyone. I think practice would be a good thing ahead of Operation Herding Cats on Tuesday.
sat/sun evenings not ideal due to family commitments but will try and make it if it suits others. or what about Monday either before the club run zwift, or at the same time? would certainly be good to practise.
Comments
Good to ride with Martin in the 2nd group on the road, although think he helped me more than I helped him!
When do we find out our league positions?
Already excited, intrigued and nervous about next weeks TTT!
I think Dan may set up a TTT training session before next week...
First race in a while for me. Found it hard with lack of fitness and it showed as my power has dropped since a couple of months ago.
Tough starting from the back but eventually made it up to the front only to get dropped on the first couple of hills. From here a second group formed and we worked to reign in the front group on the flat, another split happened and this group appeared to stay together for a while. Dan and myself were in the lead group it seemed like it was mostly Dan and myself doing the work on the front. 9/8km to the final was the last hill and my legs fell off and at 4km to go I couldn’t stop the following group catch me. I stayed with them only to get rolled by 5 or 6 riders on the line.
Need more practice and need to get my tactics right for future races.
All in Watts as generally flat and weight doesn't matter.
4 riders need to cross the line so take 4th riders 20 minute power and x 85% to get to nice resting watts.
Drafting for 4th rider is 35% more efficient. So 1st rider can be riding at 150% of 4th rider resting watts. This is the cap for front riders on the front.
Front riders should be at this limit (or as close as they can get) for as long as reasonable to keep speed. So powerful riders longer on front, less so, shorter. 45 to 90 seconds works well.
Next key is staying in line. Zwift will not overtake a rider if speeds roughly the same and watts are lower. So spread the power range between places.
For As
4th rider powers for As at around 280/290 Watts.
So 285 X 85% is 250 watts. Recovery watts.
Front rider. 250 X 150% is 375 watts. Max front watts.
Note 5min power is good indication of what is reasonable as max for each rider.
In reality this worked well but if coming through at max watts then it tended to split. So come through at 350 watts and build up (if possible) and back down again before handing over.
2nd rider 300 watts
3rd rider 265 watts
4th rider 250 watts
5th and 6th lower
For Bs
In theory identical as powers similar, just heavier riders.
However, top end power likely to be a bit less so 350 to 375 powers may not be sustainable.
So suggest target 350, coming through at 325 to start to get the feel.
Tips.
On uphills limit the w/kg. Say 4 Bs and 4.5 As. Stay together.
On downhills. Give it some. As long as build slowly no limit to max power. 500 watts no problem if decent long enough.
On the change over. Count down from 5. Stop all power at 0 and then sprint when at last rider back in line. 2nd rider builds slightly early.
When out of position. Easier to move up then down. So rider behind increase power for short period (not too much as speed builds and then shoot off front!)
Make sure line up is agreed beforehand. Group more powerful riders together to get smoother change overs.
At some point for max speed cut down to 4 if needed.
I'm sure others will chip in with more!
1. On the countdown from 5 at change over, is that the front man that counts down? And do you mean literally count down over discord?
2. What’s the theory behind going so hard on descents? I always thought that burning power on downhills is more wasteful than burning power on uphills because drag increases exponentially with speed? Interested to understand this.
Thanks
1. Yes that's right count down over discord, we have used it for the whole race and it helps a lot. I tend to stop pedaling totally at 0 for 1 or 2 seconds then a quick standing surge to let the string past but get back on the end (Zwift overtaking mechanics are a little funny but you get a feel for them)
2. Rule 1 for a TTT is keep the speed high. The front person smashing down the hill will still help everyone rest and keeps momentum up when getting on the flat as well.
Some points to add from me:
- We found having an organised order makes it much easier in terms of comms, all I need to know is that Dave Wells goes before me then I hand over to Chris L (usually) then its just about listening when coming to do your turn.
- To keep things moving if you are the front rider at your wattage target, keep it up even if someone accidentally comes past, let them sort that out, just do "your turn" until ready to swing off, this helps string everyone out efficiently.
- Dont be a hero and try and do huge pulls at the start unless you know you can back up at the end, 60-90 seconds at the high wattage target will bite 30+ minutes in. KEEP THE SPEED HIGH
- Be relatively cut throat with chopping riders if they are dropped, don't sit and wait too long for someone to get back on as long as you have 4 or more. The dropped rider should keep going as much as possible in case any of the pack have dropouts etc, be prepared to make calls on the fly - it's great fun
- Full gas in the last KM
Just saw your sprint on this link Matt, well done again:
Looks like this kid might be uploading the A races
Certainly nice to see I can just about beat a 12 year old in a sprint though. They all went sooo early.
Matt P - very impressive to watch. You guys have so much top end power.
https://zwiftinsider.com/ttt-secrets-matt-gardiner/
or what about Monday either before the club run zwift, or at the same time?
would certainly be good to practise.
Racers A are 2nd place in their league with 19 points. EMEA W2 4A
Racers B are 7th place in their league with 14 points EMEA E1 6B
Great start!